{"id":4335,"date":"2023-06-27T05:13:00","date_gmt":"2023-06-27T05:13:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/duckcreek1dev.wpenginepowered.com\/resource\/welcoming-imburse-payments-to-the-duck-creek-family-with-oliver-werneyer\/"},"modified":"2026-07-16T17:52:28","modified_gmt":"2026-07-16T21:52:28","slug":"welcoming-imburse-payments-to-the-duck-creek-family-with-oliver-werneyer","status":"publish","type":"resource","link":"https:\/\/www.duckcreek.com\/resource\/podcast\/welcoming-imburse-payments-to-the-duck-creek-family-with-oliver-werneyer\/","title":{"rendered":"Welcoming Imburse Payments to the Duck Creek Family with Oliver Werneyer"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\t\"\"\n\n\t
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\n\t\t\t\t\tWelcoming Imburse Payments to the Duck Creek Family with Oliver Werneyer\t\t\t\t<\/h1>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t
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About This Episode<\/h3>\n\n\n\n

On this episode of Conversations on the Creek, Rob Savitsky chats with Oliver Werneyer about the founding of Imburse, joining Duck Creek, and the importance of payments to the insurance industry.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Read more<\/summary>\n

Earlier in 2023, Oliver \u201cjoined the flock\u201d upon Duck Creek\u2019s acquisition of Imburse. Imburse is a modern, SaaS platform that enables insures to quickly connect to the entire payments ecosystem. Through one single connection, insurers can access multiple payment technologies and providers from around the globe and manage their bill collection. We kick off the show by talking about Oliver\u2019s background and what prompted him to explore starting a company in the payments space.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Oliver then shares his thoughts on why payments is such a critical touchpoint for enhancing customer experience. He then goes on to share his perspective on the recent bank failures in the US, and some lessons learned for the insurance industry.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We conclude the show with a discussion around what\u2019s next for Imburse and the main things Oliver is thinking about as he continues to fulfill Imburse\u2019s mission of simplifying insurer\u2019s access to the payments ecosystem.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Learn more about Imburse by visiting https:\/\/imbursepayments.com\/.<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Be sure to check out all our other episodes and follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and visit duckcreek.com\/podcasts.<\/a><\/p>\n<\/details>\n\n\n\n

Transcript<\/h3>\n\n\n\n

00:13 Rob Savitsky:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Welcome back to another episode of Conversations on the Creek. The Duck Creek podcast where we interview thought leaders about how the latest InsurTech is transforming the P&C insurance industry. Whether you work in underwriting, sales and marketing, claims, or an insurance IT department, in each episode, we uncover the insights you need to reimagine the future of insurance.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019m Rob Savitsky. In today\u2019s episode, we\u2019re so pumped to be joined by Oliver Werneyer, founder of Imburse and VP of Product Strategy at Duck Creek. We share his story about the founding of Imburse, discuss how insurance can streamline payments across the customer lifecycle, and describe the path ahead since the acquisition by Duck Creek. If you don\u2019t know Imburse, Imburse\u2019s mission is to simplify the way businesses around the world access the global payment ecosystem. All of our welcome to the show and welcome to our Formation\u201923!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

00:58 Olivier Werneyer:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Awesome. Now, thanks for having me. It\u2019s great to be here. It\u2019s a pumping environment. Also happy to be on the podcast and share more.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Read more<\/summary>\n

01:05\u202fRob:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yeah, great to have you here. I hope your\u2014 Your session, I missed it earlier, just a few moments ago. How did that go for you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

01:11\u202fOliver:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

That was awesome. It was a packed house. Like, that\u2019s always great to see, and a lot of interest in the payments topic, a lot of pain points that people struggle with on a day-to-day basis, and it\u2019s a great, like, affirmation for, like, we\u2019re targeting the right problem. We\u2019re solving the right problem. And people need that problem solved. And I look forward to sharing a bit more about that. But it\u2019s a great session.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

01:30\u202fRob:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Awesome. Well, a couple months ago, I did an episode about the founding of Duck Creek with Andy Yohn, and obviously Imburse got a reference in that; It\u2019s part of the story. But now, this is kind of like the side story. I think we you know, it\u2019s worth\u2014 before we talk about payments, get a little bit about, you know, where did you come from? Who is Oliver? And how did you get to founding Imburse?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

01:52\u202fOliver:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yup. My story, I\u2019m South African, actually. So, I\u2019m originally born and grew up in South Africa in a German household, to make things nice and complicated. And actually, it\u2019s at school there where I met one of my co-founders. Carl was a CFO. And long story short, we ended up in the UK. Both of us sort of working there for large corporates. And we actually traveled a lot for our corporate career; always hanging out in airports, waiting at those boards, waiting\u2014 which gates we\u2019re going to depart from;<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It was super frustrating, and Carl and I said, \u201cThere has to be a better way than planes can\u2019t know 40 minutes before which gate they\u2019re going to park at\u201d. So, we said no. We created a flight tracking app just for us using flight sets data, and our colleagues were like, \u201cOh, we also want access to that.\u201d So, we put it on the app store for them to download easily.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And not a month later, we get a bill from FlightStats for like 800 pounds. They\u2019re like- I was like, \u201cWhat\u2019s this for?\u201d They\u2019re like, \u201cYeah, it\u2019s for all the people tracking flights.\u201d I was like, \u201cHow\u2019s 40 people like us and our colleagues tracking flight that expensive?\u201d They\u2019re like, \u201cYou mean 20,000 people.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

02:50\u202fRob:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wow, 20,000?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

02:50\u202fOliver:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

So, people\u202fjust started downloading from the App Store. Like we didn\u2019t know marketing or anything. But turns out we were one of the first flight tracking apps there. And before we knew it, we were like 100,000 downloads, money is costing so we had to decide, \u201cAre we going to make a business out of it or shut it down?\u201d And we said, \u201cCome on, let\u2019s give this a go. We made it to flight tracking app trying to sell flight delay insurance\u201d.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And at that point, we were working with a carrier in the US for the product. And they said, \u201cMan, you know, we can give you the product, but we can\u2019t do real-time payments\u201d. And the clients were like, \u201cWell, if you can\u2019t do real time payments, what the hell\u2019s the money going to help me, like two days down the line?\u202fSo then no, I don\u2019t need the product\u201d.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And then the carrier was like, \u201cWell, guys, like I know real time payments exist as a tech in the market. But that\u2019s not connected to our system. That\u2019s a million-dollar IT project. It\u2019s going to take us like 15 months. We\u2019re not going to do it for this. So, figure out a way to connect this payment tech to our systems without touching our core IT. Yeah, maybe then we have a deal.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So, we actually built something in three months that we thought was going to be temporary. Three months later, we\u2019re back at the carrier, telling them how we\u2019re going to do it. And they\u2019re like, \u201cOh, that\u2019s pretty awesome. So, can you sell us that tech? Because you did it in three months when we couldn\u2019t do in 15 months for million dollars\u201d. I\u2019m like, what? And we realize actually, there\u2019s a great big market there and we started to understand the problem was integration or choice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We checked it with several insurers. We\u2019re like, \u201cHey, there\u2019s a business here\u201d. And we did whatever startup does, and the startup story did a pivot, boom, we had started Imburse, Feb 2018. Really grew a lot, we\u2019re like solving a lot of payment problems in the carrier\u2019s world.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And we got to meet Duck Creek through all of that, like as a partner, they were super convinced by what we\u2019re doing, saying, \u201cIt\u2019s really awesome stuff. We really liked the teams,\u201d and now we\u2019re part of the, you know, part of the flock and it\u2019s really exciting. I have to say.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

04:31\u202fRob:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

That\u2019s awesome. So, you started off doing something you had no intention of doing with this flight tracking app, and you went in a completely different direction. I\u2019m curious. What was the team like that you surrounded yourself to build that? Because I think\u2014 and maybe you skipped over this, but you have an insurance background, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

04:46\u202fOliver:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yup.\u202fExactly. So, there were four founders of us. And you know, I just couldn\u2019t have wished for better founders. So, with me was the person I knew from school who was our CFO, Carl Stremple. And then he brought in like\u2014 We needed some technical people to help us as founders because neither Carl nor I are programmers, like as you mentioned, mine was insurance background for my\u2014 Since I\u2019m from the actuarial side of the world, and Carl is from the financial side. So, Chartered Financial Accountant.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And then we brought on two technical founders, David Scott Turner, and Mark Jerome. And we formed a really great team at the beginning, bringing both the business side as well as the technology side. And I think, if I had to look back, I think that was one of the keys to our success. It\u2019s that we didn\u2019t just build tech for the sake of building tech, we built a good business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And that was really important in this mix; like half tech, half not-tech, and just grew the team with awesome people from there. One of our first hires, Bruno, who\u2019s our Chief Product Officer, did incredible things for the platform.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We had an amazing HR lady Helen, you know, she\u2019s just incredible for the culture piece, Michael Sharp, just getting the growth team in place. So, surrounding yourself with awesome people is one of the big rewards of building your own company.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

06:00\u202fRob:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

That\u2019s awesome. Awesome. Yeah, no, I like to go a little bit more into some of the challenges within payments. So, you mentioned and you know, for some of our listeners, not everyone necessarily, is heads down in the payment space.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We\u2019ve got folks in IT, who certainly need to understand the landscape and so forth. But can you break down a little bit more\u2014 the problem in more granular detail that you were you were looking to connect? And maybe, you know, shed some light on the fragmentation across the payments ecosystem?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

06:24\u202fOliver:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yeah. So, I think it\u2019s all rooted in the fact that the insurance industry is somewhat behind what customers expect from the day-to-day engagements or on payments. And these expectations are set by retailers, streaming like Amazon, Netflix, Airbnb, like seamless, easy, you know, card, digital, quick\u2014 The fact that you know\u2014 and that it\u2019s hard to do payments, that the customer doesn\u2019t care, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The fact that there\u2019s this super complexity within the insurance environment, old IT systems, no specific knowledge around payments, yet it\u2019s an exchange of payments, focuses on the processes to get to claims decision.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And this desire for the industry, the insurance industry to catch up to good customer experience, and customer images\u2014 We sorted that out in the presentations earlier, humanized\u2014 you know, humanize the experience.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

07:16\u202fRob:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

07:17\u202fOliver:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

This requires getting down to the customer level, and giving them what they want. So, personalization. Humanization. But that blowback is immense from an operational perspective onto an insurer. Just by choosing between like a bank or like an ACH, or backs or CIPA. And card, and Venmo, like a wallet type.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

That\u2019s often three different providers. Within a carrier, somebody has to do that integration, see if it\u2019s even possible because some of the systems are so old. Then you have to integrate that into finance world, to the reporting. These payment types all work differently. Like how long it takes to get the money, when it\u2019s in your bank account, the reports that come back, what if there\u2019s an issue? Who do you go to?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

07:57\u202fRob:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

07:58\u202fOliver:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

So, this problem is not only difficult, because it\u2019s not a core competency of an insurer, although it\u2019s mission critical. Once you\u2019re in an insurer, a different line of business will want a different customer journey, they want a different provider. Going into another country, everything changed again. So this complexity, just exponentially gets worse, and for insurers, that means expensive. And this is where it breaks down.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So, they\u2019re struggling to catch up to giving a great customer experience, automating process, because to appoint any of this\u2026 It\u2019s super expensive, and takes super long. And this is where we\u2019ve just realized we can make a difference. Like breaking down that piece, making it easy to deploy, getting payments, you know, the day-to-day customer. For them it\u2019s just like, \u201cOh, I just want to do what I what I normally do.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

08:44\u202fRob:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

08:45\u202fOliver:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

And this is what we want to give them, and bridge that between this operational chaos that\u2019s within carriers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

08:50\u202fRob:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Right. I mean, for the customer. It\u2019s like, you know, first of all, we\u2019re talking on the personal side, most people don\u2019t think about insurance, don\u2019t want to think about insurance necessarily. But there\u2019s a chance to change that, and part of that is just giving a better experience throughout their lifecycle so\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n

09:04\u202fOliver:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

And like you said, like, never mind carriers or IT people not understanding payments. End consumer\u2014 like why can Apple do it? Why can Netflix do it? Airbnb, those\u2014 Seems easy. You know, the excuse about your IT environment and regulation doesn\u2019t interest the end consumer. He wants an experience.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

09:23\u202fRob:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Right? They want to pay their monthly bills, they want to get their claims payouts.\u202fSo, let\u2019s change gears a little bit. Talk a little bit about some of the current events that have happened. So, March of this year Silicon Valley Bank collapse seized by the FDIC, then in May, just a few days ago, though, probably a little bit later by the time this episode drops, first Republic Bank failed. I\u2019m curious what are some of the lessons learned from insurers that you think we can take away from these events?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

09:48\u202fOliver:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

So within the insurance world, people love to think of like one in X year events; Like, so, they even talk about a one-in-200 year event, like, when would a hailstorm of this size or an earthquake happen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And it\u2019s no different to vendors, like, they look at their banks, like, what is the chance that your bank fails? Like nobody even recognizes that as an actual thing. So I mean, think about an insurer giving a service, and suddenly not being able to collect money. So, even with the Silicon Valley piece, it got locked down.\u202fBut, it didn\u2019t stop the bank from collecting money. So money was going out of customer accounts, into corporate accounts that were now locked down, that the corporate cannot access.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Now, they don\u2019t have the liquidity to pay for its staff \u2014 has no other bank, like what do you do? It\u2019s like an existential question. Now, not everybody banked with Silicon Valley Bank or so. But it really opened their eyes to be like, yeah, this can happen. And we have to start taking this stuff seriously and start thinking about how do we insulate ourselves and protect ourselves against adverse movement. And I think one of these things is just like, some stuff has just become a little bit more real. And they have to digest that now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So, I don\u2019t know, personally, of any specific carrier that had an existential piece, everything committed to Silicon Valley Bank, but I do know, some startups, in the insurtech and insurance space\u2026 We\u2019re pretty much screwed in that space. But you can imagine from a carrier perspective, risk management is major topic at the board level. There\u2019s a lot of questions being asked, just now down into the organization.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Hey, what if our bank goes? Like the fact that it\u2019s a big American bank, or big European bank? People want to know what happens then. And this is open up all the can of worms are on operational, like, why would you have another bank that you might never use, and spend a million bucks to connect and 100k every year just to maintain? So, it\u2019s this whole new world for the carrier\u2019s trying to navigate that and understand what this means for them and their operating model.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

11:44\u202fRob:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Right. And if you decide to go down that, I don\u2019t know if call it diversification or, or other kind of route, I mean, what is the technology in place that you need to have that flexibility to just be able to switch or access.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

11:57\u202fOliver:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

So you\u2019ll need some kind of tech layer that allows you to switch out providers or at least aggregate the connectivity into one place, sort of to insulate your organization from having to individually connect. And most companies would today, have to individually connect new providers, this is where a lot of resources go into. It\u2019s just the way it is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And this is the kind of space we try to focus on. It\u2019s like how do you take this heavy lifting of customers and create sort of this layer for them to put between themselves in that payment world? It\u2019s absolutely critical, but they don\u2019t get, and don\u2019t want to really dedicate too much resources to, because it\u2019s not commercializable, outside of doing the actual work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

12:37\u202fRob:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

12:38\u202fOliver:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

So a layer like ours, where you can just swap out providers gives you that ability to mitigate this exposure that you have.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

12:47\u202fRob:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nice. Love that. It sounds like it\u2019s very, very helpful, and a lot of opportunity for carriers to start adopting this kind of tech. So as we get closer to wrapping up here, maybe two more questions. One I want to throw out, if you look\u2014 if you look ahead, I like to pull up my crystal ball from time to time; Looking to 2030, from premium collections to claims payments. What opportunities are there do you think we\u2019re, you know, technologies, like Imburse, will have the greatest impact across the insurance lifecycle?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

13:15\u202fOliver:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I think the impact from platform like ours is to enable carriers to use services out there much more, sort of definitively to make a difference in their own lives in the customer, meaning it\u2019s not so much about Imburse, but what Imburse empowers companies to do. Give you a cool example; we started out with a \u2014 with a customer who wants to help younger people save more for pension.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So, that was the starting point. And they said, what do we know? People start too late. They don\u2019t save enough at a young age and the products we have are super boring. So, how do we compel them? We know what\u2019s the right thing to do. So, now we have this program called micro savings.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You can subscribe your credit card, set a savings goal like 5% of everything I spend every week. So, save while I spend\u2014 not save instead of spending, on a weekly basis. Like oh, you spent $500. 5% of that let me take 25 bucks and put it into your savings account. That made an incredible difference to the average amount saved; It\u2019s much more engaging.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But the cool thing now is that we realize, \u201cOh crap, you can use that same tech to automate claims payments in the P&C space\u201d. So, when imagine you have a rock into your windshield that got cracked. You claim, great experience, I said got it claim approved, go to the in-network provider, you\u2019re going to pay 20 bucks, we\u2019re going to pay 10 bucks.\u202fYou know, get yourself sorted out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Now we realize, hey cool, why don\u2019t we say to the client, you know, use your credit card\u2014 Give us your credit card number, and instead then we\u2019ll pay $8.50 And you only have to pay $1.50. Client says\u202fthat\u2019s a great deal. So, why would the carrier do that? Because\u2014<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Goes to the to the repair shop. They fix his car. He pulls his car through the machine, puts his PIN in, pays his $1.50. So it\u2019s done. In that moment, the card skim checks everything.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Is the\u202fPIN correct? Is the card blacklisted? Is the person who set it is? Awesome, payment approved. And immediately that\u2019s the same tech as the micro savings, we get a notification, this guy used his card. That\u2019s how much he spent; this is where he spent it. All the checks were fine; PIN, everything. And then the carrier can be like, oh, yeah, that is the name on the card. Cool. The PIN, everything was great. That vendor, like, merchant, that is what a network\u2014 Awesome. We pay the $8.50.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Immediately create a bank transaction, pay, it will send them an email: We already paid. So, now that arrives two seconds after the customer pulled the card through. So that vendor \u2014 like repair shop\u2014 doesn\u2019t have to send an email to the insurer asking for this invoice to be settled. Saves all the finance people time of getting involved in that process. No errors, it\u2019s\u202fa great experience for the workshop. Everybody wants to be part of that system.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And that\u2019s what I see for the future; It\u2019s how do you use technologies like ours and in other spaces, other partners, to create like a whole new stack that enables you to use more of this tech and combine it to create completely new experiences and solutions for customers and the carriers. And I think that\u2019s\u2014 People underestimate how much payments can contribute to that experience, value creation, and feeling great about a product.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

16:07\u202fRob:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Right. Yeah, no, the example you gave, you don\u2019t even think about it. There\u2019s like 17 steps behind the scenes to enable that seamless, frictionless customer transaction.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

16:15\u202fOliver:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

And it\u2019s\u202fexpensive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

16:18\u202fRob:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It is, it is. Well, it\u2019s awesome to hear what you\u2019re up to, I guess, but maybe to close out the show. Now that you\u2019re part of Duck Creek, what\u2019s next for Imburse, and what are you looking to do in the future?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

16:28\u202fOliver:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Oh, man, I can\u2019t tell you how excited we are. Because there\u2019s so much going on. And it\u2019s really about understanding, like, how do we integrate into the wider proposition? Like really empower our colleagues?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Like the billing side, the claim side, policy side? How are we bringing, like, talking to the carriers? What are their big problems that we can solve next for them so that, you know, having policy plus billing plus claims, one plus one plus one equals five, like blow their minds with what can do on the data side, experience side, and be that change? Right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So, talking about humanized experiences today; How do we help our clients get to that world where they can talk about humanizing an experience and delivering experience that people weren\u2019t expecting from an insurance company? And to be part of that internally right now? It\u2019s quite exciting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

With these challenges of where do you fit in and which piece you do, and why do you start first, it\u2019s daunting. But it\u2019s exciting, because there\u2019s lots of stuff to do and a lot of people are super eager to get into it and make a change. So that\u2019s really cool.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

17:26\u202fRob:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Awesome. Well, it\u2019s great to have you on board and I know the best is yet to come. Excited to see what\u2019s next.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

17:32\u202fOliver:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Hey, Rob, thanks for having me. It was great to talk. I really enjoyed it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

17:36\u202fRob:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Awesome. Thank you, Oliver. Thank you all for listening today. You can learn more about Imburse by going to their website imbursepayments.com. More information coming soon as well on the Duck Creek website. Finally, if you enjoyed this podcast, be sure to check out all the other episodes and follow us on Apple podcasts, Spotify, by visiting duckcreek.com\/podcasts. I\u2019m Rob Savitsky. And I will see you in the next episode.<\/p>\n<\/details>\n\n\n\n

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